<div class="gmail_quote">Normally, we should come with a solution, implement it, it becomes popular, everybody uses it, then IETF standardizes it.<br><br>Like SSL. <br><br>The rest is IETF's mental illusions. IPv6 etc. Trying to mandate a solution that no one asked for. If you forget the two elephants (IETF totally ignored them) happiness can't be. <br>
<br>So I don't know what I am doing here... This is a useless place. <br><br>On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Michael Welzl <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michawe@ifi.uio.no" target="_blank">michawe@ifi.uio.no</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
This discussion seems to be about "what would be good design" vs. pragmatic "what can we standardize and deploy now".<br>
<br>
I think that your proposal falls in the first category, like the PlutArch paper that Jon Crowcroft has pointed to, and like John Day's book!<br>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Network-Architecture-Return-Fundamentals/" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/<u></u>Patterns-Network-Architecture-<u></u>Return-Fundamentals/</a><br>
I think that this book covers a lot of what you'd like to see, in great detail.<br>
<br>
In the second category, I think the IETF is doing the best it can, e.g. with point solutions like indeed 6lowpan and recent things happening in the IRTF RRG.<br>
If you think that these solutions are not far reaching enough, why not make a concrete proposal?<br>
<br>
Simply saying "the architecture is wrong, it should be X" is fine, but then you're in the world of research where I'd say what you propose is nothing new.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Michael<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Sep 16, 2012, at 8:36 AM, Pars Mutaf wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
For those who forgot the original post, the problem that I see is:<br>
<br>
IETF is blocking technology.<br>
<br>
1. No one should touch the existing IPv4 Internet (except those who run it)<br>
2. IPv6 cannot be deployed<br>
3. IPv6 means IP research is done. This is very harmful.<br>
<br>
IETF's role is not making design decisions for others, it is ***enabling new technology***.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Pars Mutaf <<a href="mailto:pars.mutaf@gmail.com" target="_blank">pars.mutaf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
Hi Ross,<br>
<br>
This is off topic no?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Ross Finlayson <<a href="mailto:finlayson@live555.com" target="_blank">finlayson@live555.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> Even better, perhaps professional mailing<br>
lists like this should start<br>
> rejecting postings from 'hobbyist' email<br>
addresses ("@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>",<br>
> "@<a href="http://yahoo.com" target="_blank">yahoo.com</a>", etc.)...<br>
<br>
Sigh, much as I basically agree with you, a number of our<br>
serious contributors<br>
also use gmail, etc, these days.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Not to mention the PhD students who wouldn't like to be excluded ;-)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Do these PhD students' schools not have their own domain name? :-)<br>
<br>
Note that it's possible to let gmail manage email to/from addresses that use other domain names. See:<a href="http://productforums.google.com/forum/#%21topic/gmail/tEaJstfhzeI" target="_blank">http://productforums.<u></u>google.com/forum/#!topic/<u></u>gmail/tEaJstfhzeI</a><br>
<br>
The problem is not the 'gmail' service per se (provided that you don't mind your email being scanned :-). The problem is the "@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>" email address suffix, which advertises to the world that you're not particularly relevant. (Ditto for "@<a href="http://yahoo.com" target="_blank">yahoo.com</a>", "@<a href="http://hotmail.com" target="_blank">hotmail.com</a>", "@<a href="http://aol.com" target="_blank">aol.com</a>" addresses, etc.)<br>
<br>
Ross.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<a href="http://www.content-based-science.org" target="_blank">http://www.content-based-<u></u>science.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<a href="http://www.content-based-science.org" target="_blank">http://www.content-based-<u></u>science.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.content-based-science.org" target="_blank">http://www.content-based-science.org</a><br><br>