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<title>RE: [e2e] end of interest</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In
what world are you living, exactly? What about systems like Skype, or Bit
torrent? They are definitely pushing the envelope of end to end designs, are
widely deployed, and are not controlled by major corporations. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
end2end-interest-bounces@postel.org
[mailto:end2end-interest-bounces@postel.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Mahesh Balakrishnan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 18, 2008 5:11
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> end2end-interest@postel.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [e2e] end of interest<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In fact
there seems to be pushback from both ends --- we can't deploy end-to-end
protocols because major companies own the end-host stacks; and we can't push
mechanisms deep into the network because ISPs and router companies own the
network. Arguably the latter source of pushback played a major role in the emergence
of the e2e philosophy; but now we have equally powerful commercial forces on
the other side.<br>
<br>
So effectively the only practical mode of deployment seems to be the 'almost'
end-to-end middlebox --- one hop away from the end-host but not quite into the
network (and the Maelstrom work I presented day before yesterday at NSDI would
be one example).<br>
<br>
- mahesh<br>
<br>
--<br>
<a href="http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~mahesh">http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~mahesh</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: end2end-interest-bounces@postel.org on behalf of David P. Reed<br>
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 9:13 AM<br>
To: Jon Crowcroft<br>
Cc: 'end2end-interest@postel.org'<br>
Subject: Re: [e2e] end of interest<br>
<br>
I personally think that the network community has become frustrated with<br>
the inability to explore end-to-end protocols because the endpoint<br>
stacks are "locked in" by vendors in proprietary code.<br>
<br>
<snip></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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